Harry's Love

[peterbb]

I've always though Harry/Luna as a unit was a possibility. The emphesis(sp?) put on that scene at the end of OotP seems too important not too mean anything. However, is a crush the same thing as his mother's inconditional love?

Just some thoughts...

-Peter

[Athena Appleton]

First off, welcome to BaO, Quidditch and Peter! sorry it's taken me a while to get on and notice new people.

There are sooooo many definitions of love that I think that everyone's is correct. Before I ever dated, I thought that the love of God, and of my family, were the two main kinds of love. Then I met my husband. Totally different. Then I had my children, and I'm starting to feel like I never even had a clue what love was before they came along. In Greek (I think it's Greek, if I'm wrong, the point is still there, because it's Greek or Arabic or something like that), there are many different words to say for "love." There's brotherly love, unconditional love (generally a parent's love, or God's love), lover love, and several others I can't think of right now. So yay! Everyone's definitions are accurate. Just take them all, and that defines love.

I wouldn't say, though, that crushes qualify as love in any sense. When you're going through one, a lot of time you think it is love, but since it's usually relatively short-lived, based on a starry-eyed view of a person, rather than their real self, and immature (blushing and hairpulling kind of thing rather than a mature relationship love), I wouldn't define it as love. But that's just me.

Alice I think you mean anger can wane as the energy fades, hate is something different. It's like how passion can fade from love, but the emotion love is still there.

yegzackly

Yes, I believe that they are equally strong. But is it really hate that Voldemort feels? Is he capable of any feeling?

You know, I really think he is capable of feeling... but he's just filled to the brim with hate, that there's no room in his heart for love. I think it's obvious he's capable of anger, jealousy, rage and hate. All those are feelings.

hmm, Ferrus you have got me thinking. some people are saying that Harry will be able to perform the Unforgivable curses by book 7 as he will learn to hate like LV. but then, if he stoops to that level of hating, will his power of loving be affected?

I'm kind of torn on this. I'd like to think that Harry will be able to dispose of Voldemort without performing an Unforgiveable. Wouldn't it be ironic if something happens to make Voldemort finally feel something good, and that's when he's vulnerable? If he does, though, I think he would have realized that he can channel anger and passion about that anger without letting it consume him. I don't know if that makes much sense, but I look at it like this. Most of us are capable of real love, and love and friendships are what dominate our being, but there is usually someone who has done something so horrendous that we have the hate power to do something truly horrible to them, if given the chance. Voldemort is filled to the brim with hate, so he just raises his wand and crucios everyone he comes across who looks at him crosseyed. I think Harry will brood about all that has been done to him as result of Voldemort (his parents dying, having to live with the Dursleys, being the center of attention constantly, the yearly confrontations with bad bad stuff, Sirius dying, all that fun stuff) and will be able to channel all that into enough bad power to dispose of Voldemort, without having the power to do random acts of meanness.

For any Disney fans: In Aladdin 3, at the end, Iago kills the bad guy by using his very last strength. (if I remember correctly, it's been a long time) Iago is Wormtail and the bad guy of course if Voldy. I'm not sure if it will end like that, but that Aladdin ending may have some parallel with HP's ending.

I'm a Disney fan... never wasted an hour and a half watching the third Aladdin movie, even though I heard it's MUCH better than the Return of Jafar. Regardless, I wouldn't have pulled it as a reference, but I see what you're saying.

[Reverie Revenge]

Mother's love and romantic lover are uncomparable , though I've experienced just the first one 8) . At least I think a crush or an affair isn't love if you don't care much about that person I've never been in a serious relationship with sb I loved so all my thoughts are theory.

I agree with Phinea, love and hate are equally powerful. Equally in general but in a certain person of course one emotion can be more powerful. I mean, Molly for example is a loving person and she surely feels much more love than hate.
But I disagree about exotic girls - Harry liked Cho because she was good looking (and a good quidditch player). Luna is attractive too, but not in a cliche way. Harry isn't a guy who would say: ''I want Asia girls only'', he's too mature for that though he's only 15 or 16.

Harry's love for Luna I've explained it in forum Characters, topic Do you really want them to kill? Here's a resume:

The final battle of Harry and Voldie will be a battle about love (remember DD say, how powerful force love is?). Harry's love for Luna and Voldie's for Bella.

Harry met Luna during the feast and just a look at her was a consolation. She was the only one capable of making Harry feel better! I don't think he feels sth. like a passion for her, morelikely an attachment, platonic love if you want. But I think they'll get involved more, they're teenagers, hello

Bella loves the Dark Lord in a romantic way, though far too exagerated. She would do anything for him, the most loyal servant Voldie ever had
I don't think LV is ready to admit he is loved by Bella because all his philosophy is based on hatred, because he denies love. But he can't deny Bella, she's too helpful. LV is caught in his paradox and this will cost him

[Athena Appleton]

I hope you're joking about some of that (the Bella-Voldemort thing)...



I disagree with you about Luna and Harry... I honestly think that Harry and Ginny will wind up with each other, I think there's just too much going for it. I think Luna will wind up kinda liking Harry, maybe, but I think they'll just grow to be good friends. They understand each other really well, but so far, I really don't feel like there's anything more to this relationship, or will ever be anything more to this relationship, than a close friendship.

[Nightcrawler]

Just a thought, I can vaugly relate to this:

Harry's whole life has been pretty miserable;


He never had the chance to know his parents,

His whole life he had been living with people who mistreat him, he has always been behind Dudley's (enourmous) shadow,

His first real freindship is constantly under preassure because of his unwanted fame,

Draco is a jerk,

JKR hasn't really touched on this one yet, but I'm sure that because of his upbringing, Harry feels like an outsider, even to other wizards becuase he would lack certain social skills,

For three years, the "man" responsible for the death of his parents has been sleeping in his dorm,

Something bad happens to him every year,

Snape and Filch hate him,

Although he never met his dad, Harry has always seen him as a hero; now that has been thrown out the window,

And recently, the one guy Harry could depend on, the only person who has always been honest with Harry, quite possibly the biggest role model Harry has ever had, has been murdered,

That last one was partly Harry's fault.



One would think that with all of that built up resentment and rage, Harry would be able to cast some pretty dark magic. Nope.
Even in his most dire moment, Harry could not find it in himself to Cruccio Bella. She deserved it. Harry should have been able to do it, he had more than enough motivation. Everything bad that has happened to poor Harry has been the fault of Voldermort and his Death Eaters. Harry should have wanted to kill her then and there. In fact he needed to, not only did he owe it to Sirius; but also to himself. He has always had to turn the other cheek with the Dursleys, and now was his time to unleash it all on Bella.
...And he couldn't do it.

Where am I going with all of this? I think that over the next two books, we will see a very different Harry. He clearly hates Bella, but did not vanquish her. Imagine how ashamed he feels that he let her get away. Imagine how guilty he feels about Sirius's death. The number one person he will be feeling hatred for in the near future will be himself.

If I were in Harry's position, not only would I like to Cruccio Bella, I'd feel a responsibility to do so. If I didn't, (which would probably be the case) I would feel that I let myself down. I would feel like a total wuss.

I think that the new Harry will be one plauged with self-loathing, and ridden with guilt. I think that he will be very broody and quiet. His hatred for Voldie and his DE's will not be direct rage, but a side-effect of his anger at himself. He will make sure to never fail himself like that twice. He will be a pretty damn powerful wizard.

...and of course, for the familly-freindly, happy ending; Harry will have to overcome these issues and refuse his newfound Darkside powers. (Possibly defeat Voldermort through courage and trickery rather than outright hate and power).

[Groo]

well, that was more than just a thought

i think that Harry was unable to perform the cruciatus curse just because he hadnt done it before and that he didnt know how to. the hate and motivation was there, but i dont think that only pure untapped hate is enough to perform an unforgivable. there has to be grooming and practice of the cruciatus before you are able to perform it perfectly. also there has to be enough power in you, which harry lacked at that moment.

i think Harry will be now taught personally to defend himself and he will be made into a more powerful wizard.Indeed, it would be foolish to teach him school subjects now with LV after him and Ministry not interfering any more. he should be let off like during the Triwizard cup and taught DADA extensively instead.

i am still sceptical that a teenage kid will eventually manage to perform the Unforgivables good enough to hurt seasoned DEs, but then one can argue that if he can produce a Patronus, why cant he do this?

[carsten]

I disagree with you about Luna and Harry... I honestly think that Harry and Ginny will wind up with each other, I think there's just too much going for it. I think Luna will wind up kinda liking Harry, maybe, but I think they'll just grow to be good friends. They understand each other really well, but so far, I really don't feel like there's anything more to this relationship, or will ever be anything more to this relationship, than a close friendship.

As far as Ginny is concerned, I think she will match up with Neville. She is too kind to regard him as a loser, like others do. He became very important for the story in OotP and did a job in the ministry. The team entering the ministry will very likely be the core of the last two books.

Carsten

[Nightcrawler]

I think that Harry was unable to perform the cruciatus curse just because he hadnt done it before and that he didnt know how to. the hate and motivation was there, but i dont think that only pure untapped hate is enough to perform an unforgivable. there has to be grooming and practice of the cruciatus before you are able to perform it perfectly. also there has to be enough power in you, which harry lacked at that moment.

Good point. Although I'm sure Harry will experience a level of self-loathing nonetheless. Yeah, I agree it would probably take more then raw hate to perform an unforgiveable. It would take hours of mental practice.

But surely there would be some sort of spell that could be cast out of anger without any practice? I'm talking about on a subconsious level, like when Harry grew his hair back after Petunia cut it, or when he flew up onto the roof to escape Dudley and his mates. I think this implies that with some spells, all you have to do is want something badly enough.

[...]but then one can argue that if he can produce a Patronus, why cant he do this?

Do you think that maybe the love spell Lilly cast over Harry had something to do with this? Perhaps making love and happy thoughts more natural to Harry despite his upbringing, thus making it easier than normal for him to call upon a Patronus? Just an idea your post gave me.

Maybe the form of Harry's Patronus had something to do with Lilly's spell too, Lilly loved James as well as Harry, so maybe the love of James was also transfered into Harry and that effected the shape of his Patronus.

Maybe Harry's Patronus will be a little weaker now that Harry has lost quite a bit of respect for James.

[Nightcrawler]

As far as Ginny is concerned, I think she will match up with Neville. She is too kind to regard him as a loser, like others do.

Great point, I always thought that Ginny was nice to Neville because she pittied him, but maybe it was her underlying kindness that makes her unable to judge him on his clumsy reputation.

Ginny is so sweet...

[Athena Appleton]

Yeah, she and Harry will make a great couple.

I'm stickin to this one. No one can convince me otherwise.

[carsten]

I'm stickin to this one. No one can convince me otherwise.

JKR will be the judge. 8)

Carsten

[Athena Appleton]

Okay, well, I should have said that no one but J.K. Rowling will convince me. I really think this is where she's going with it, though... oh well. too many Harry romance threads in here

[D.A. Member]

Although Ginny is adorable and I love her, I don't think there is any way that she and Harry will end up together. I think it would be too weird! The Weasly Family is the closest thing to a family that Harry has. Ron is like his brother and I think he sees Ginny as a little sister. There are definate possibilities that Luna is the one for Harry. They have much in common and I think she really understands him in a way no one has been able to so far. Maybe it's just wishful thinking

[Marcus Baker]

Luna is a fair candidate for Harry's lover, however I think that a lot of people will make fun of him. I mean, after all, she is "Loony Luna". I think that Harry will talk to her in the future now that she has faced danger in the eye with him, but I think friends is the closest they will get. And when reading the books, it seems that Ron is edging Harry to date his sister now and then. Even though he dosent want anyone else to, he says "well, maybe it wont be so bad with you". I dunno if I am imagining this or not, but I think I remember him saying that at the end of book 5 (not quite sure). Well, thats also true that Ginny is like Harry's sister, so maybe not. Hmm...I hope he finds some other girl (which would be wierd, if he really liked someone physically, he would of noticed her before, soooo there has to be some sort of connection between them...).

[TDM]

well, personally, i believe Harry will end up alone in the books. as for beyond, only JKR can every think about it, and she will never tell because she'll never write it. i've had this thought in my head for awhile now, and i'm actually using it for a fic (completly unrelated to HP), and it goes something like this:

hero and friends defeat 00ber baddie

hero's friends (who just happen to be a guy and a girl), hook up at the end, leaving the hero the odd man out

so, the hero walks away, leaving his two best friends to their little hookup, and is (possibly) never seen again.


now, this is what will happen in my fic, not necessarily HP, but i could see it happening for HP...besides the 'never seen again' part.