Houses and Sorting.

[Mumbleberry]

Well, this is my theoree about the houses. First, some observations.

1. House allocation is clearly based to a large extent upon choice. That is, it's not about the abilities you have, but the values you embrace. On the other hand, the abilites you have will of course shape the kind of values you will choose to find important, and conversely, your choices will determine which abilites you develop and which you don't.

The SH's song in OotP makes this clear: The houses are based upon value-choices originally made by the four founders. But each member of a house is the representative of the founder and so, as well as 'being chosen' by them, reenacts their choices in their own lives.

2. These are a selection of people whose house we know, and who were allocated without difficulty (the borderlines shed a lot of light on the whole issue, but leaving them for a moment)

Gryffindor: Ron and all Weasleys, Prof. McGonagall
Slytherin: Draco Malfoy, Snape
Ravenclaw: Cho, Luna
Hufflepuff: Cedric Diggory, hmm I can't think of anyone else we know well ie not random members of DA.

3. House allocation ought to be symmetrical, ie divide the wizarding population exactly into four, and it ought to be comprehensive, ie there ought always to be at least one house that a person could be put into.


Now, I think House allocation takes the form of a two-by-two grid, ie ranking by a combination of two values. eg

...............Red .............. Not Red
Round Red Circle Blue Circle
Square Red Square Blue Square

I think these values can be broadly described as:

Heart/Mind - Gryffindor&Hufflepuff/Ravenclaw&Slytherin

Selfish/Selfless: Gryffindor&Slytherin/Ravenclaw&Hufflepuff

So the grid would go like this:


.................Heart.................Mind

Selfish Gryffindor Slytherin

Selfless Hufflepuff Ravenclaw


Now, just to make clear here what I mean by these divisions:

Heart/Mind. I'm using these terms loosely, but I hope it's clear what I mean by them: I don't mean that Ravenclaws and Slytherins don't feel, just that they don't wear their hearts on their sleeves the way typical Gryffindor/Hufflepuffs do.

Selfish/Selfless: Selfish here I'm not using in a negative sense, but as the opposite to selfless - Gryffindor/Slytherins just tend to have a stronger sense of the self and a stronger desire to be in control. They have a tendency to want to control others. I could have called this division controlling/non-controlling, but I don't know that that wouldn't have caused more confusion.

On top of this, there is a further dimension to the whole affair. For these characterisics to not combine in a fully straightforward and entirely symmetrical way. You can see this in the way that Gryffindors and Ravenclaws form natural alliances that balance one another, whereas Slytherins and Hufflepuffs tend to be miles apart. I'm calling this Harmony/Disharmony. Slytherin and Hufflepuff characteristics are internally harmonious. Heart/Selfless and Mind/Selfish are combinations in which the characteristics strengthen and support each other. There is, however, an inherent discord in Heart/Selfish and Mind/Selfless which makes Gryffindor and Ravenclaw values embrace conradiction and moderate each other. This moderateness makes them closer together. So actually, it's less of a square than a Rhombus:
... ____
. /...... /
/____/


The drawing is not of very high quality, but I hope I'm putting this across.
Anyway, so that's my theoree, for what it's worth. And I haven't been sorted yet - I'm still deciding.

[Holly Golightly]

So, let me see if I got this right... if someone is predominately Heartfelt and Selfless, they will be a Hufflepuff, but if they are Mindful and Selfless, Ravenclaw? And, if they tend to think of themselves first (yet not in a negative way, as you said) they would be in either Griffindor of Slytherin, depending on the other option?

[highsorcerer]

I think that is wrong.

Gryffindor - brave - willing to fight what what they belive in.

Slythrnin - pu blood - brve, but think about themselves first.

Raveclaws - smart, but not without the selfishness of Slytherin or the blind bravery or Gryffinodor

the rest - Hufflepuff - oh, and don't start reminding - Cedric was a Hufflepuff and a champion. Because sorting doens't make you great - pure blood, bravery, or talent. Cedric make himself a champion

[Marcus Baker]

For Hufflepuff, its not the rest. I think you have to be loyal to others and patiant. I (honestly) am DEFINATLY not patiant, so I wouldnt belong there if i was neither brave, smart or cunning. Also, you dont have to be pureblood to be Slytheren (at least i dont think) cuz Tom Riddle wasent. I think you have to be cunning and sly....for thoes devious people not necessarly in a bad way.

[Devinci]

I think those things are right highsorcerer, but I also see what Mumbleberry was saying. What he said about the qulifications should be put into perspective...don't take them as literal *selfish and mind, doesn't mean you want everyone' brain...* get what I'm saying? I think if you look at the characteristics on a broad spectrum, they make perfect sense. Awesome post Mumbleberry *thumbs up*

[Holly Golightly]

I liked Mumbleberry's idea too! It does seem to fit!

And to Marcus: About Hufflepuff taking the rest, didn't the sorting hat say that in one of the songs. After Griffindor, Slytherin and Ravanclaw had taken their pick, Hufflepuff would take what's left?? (either that, or once again, my memory is failing me! )

[yasmane]

Just to say I found your analysis interesting.
Of course it's not perfect but it's a good rundown of the four houses.
and Golightly I think you're right about hufflepuff taking what's left and for me it's coherent with the heart and selfless analysis.
And by the way, Having Neville in the gryffindor house should have shown us earlier that he was a courageous wizard, which honestly I was doubting at the beginning.

[Broccoli]

Mumbleberry, interesting observations! But it is still not clear, how the wizards are split into 4 equal groups, the number of selfish people should not necessary be equal to the number of selfless people, should it?

[Ju-DedoH]

maybe the the groups are supposed to represent the naturals division in society, meaning that they don't have to count, they know that there will be equal numbers ...

[yasmane]

It was only a general idea, don't generalize it to all students.
I mean Gryffindor's students are not all selfish and vice & versa.
the theory is just here to give a simple view, not to explain everything.

[pinky p]

Good thinking

[Eol]

This is an excellent version of how the sorting hat would most likely work. As Mumbleberry stated, house allocation is based to a large extent on choice. We all know that the hat can see into people's minds. Perhaps it looks through their past memories to see how they've behaved in previous situations, to match them up with the houses criteria. Of course with the hats remarkable ability to see everything in a person's mind, there are bound to be a large amount of qualities to be looked at, and the house whose criteria is most filled by the student. But the qualities outlined by Mumbleberry are bound to have major weight in the sorting.

[yasmane]

I agree with EOL, except may be on one point :
The hat does look indeed in the person's mmories, but I also think it can look into possible interactions between people and how they're going to progress.
For instance, it put Hermione within the Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw (where her skills woulf have perfectly matched) because the hat must have seen a bit of future (or something like that) end knew that she was going to help Harry in his fight VS Voldy.
That's what I think.

[Just Mom]

Wow. My intellect is on some level far below this very detailed theory!
However, I agree with Yasmane on something with a twist: I think the Sorting Hat doesn't necessarily see "the future" persay, because the future isn't locked into place and is always changing based upon the choices we make, but the Sorting Hat can see the possibilities for qualities to emerge that are perhaps hidden or dormant within an individual.
Teachers and administrators do this every summer when they decide where to assign students for the coming year. (they're supposed to do this anyway!) They look at students' strengths and weaknesses and wise ones very often will place a student in a class with a teacher, or other students or both, that will help that child blossom into someone they don't seem to be as of yet. And that seems to be the case with the Sorting Hat's choices. I mean look at the Weasleys, they don't have much money, they're not "sophisticated" or outstanding in some way, they're just good plain folks. They seem kinda like they should be in Hufflepuff. But the Sorting Hat saw potential in them that others couldn't see and placed them in Gryffindor. Same with Hermione, who again, based upon her outward abilities, should be in Ravenclaw, but the Sorting Hat saw something in her that pointed to different possibilities.

[yasmane]

I totally agree.