This is a long story .
I guess i'd better start somewhere. OK.
A neighbour of mine, who is in the year below me at school, ( she was 14 at the time) decided to go to scouts. which is cool and fine but then the scout leader split up with his wife and left the scout group suddenly.
A little while later my friend confided in me that she was 'seeing' this guy. he is 30. i was really worried and advised her to stop, when i did she winced and was like "god youre just like everyone else you don't understand". i tried to understand but i couldn't i found it horrable.
All last summer i was working with this girl and she kept coming in all aglow about howmuch she loved him and how they were getting married etc.
I tried to stop her. When she came in and announced that she had slept with him i was really shocked i didn't think she was as stupid as that.
Her parents fond out that they had been seeing each other, and not surprisingly banned her from seeing him. they took away her mobile phone so she couldn't contact him either.
He then bought her a phone and kept putting money on it. i knew and didn't tell anyone.
when we went back to school after the summer i discovered that he was coming up to school during the lunch break and taking her off in his van. I told a teacher that 'someone' ( i didn't say her name i think i probbably should have ) had an oldedr boyfriend who was coming up to school and i didn;t think it was safe for the younger kids if a bloke like that was anywhere near the school.
My friends parents took her to the police but she refused to make a statement.
I think she changed her mind when he seduced one of her friends.
I saw in the paper that there was a court case but i don't know the outcome. it makes me sick and to think he was a SCOUT LEADER and was in a position of authoruty and responsibility. he claims nothing was going on before he stood down as a leader but i saw tham together befoer then and they were flirting very much and thats not the kind of relationships leaders should have with the CHILDREN in their care.
i don't know what made me post this now. i guess the whole JAsonkill thing and the story on the news about a 12 year old girl made me think. maybe i could've stopped this befroe it had got too far.
should i have done more? you can be honest i'd appreciate it.
Should I have done more?
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Should I have done more?
by han lin » Wednesday 16 July 2003 10:09:25pm
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han lin - Hogwarts Guardian of Virtue
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by Vivian Borgin » Wednesday 16 July 2003 10:54:13pm
It sounds like you've already done about all you possibly could. Sadly, there's nothing you can do to change the mind of a friend who's determined to go down that path. 
It was nice of you to have cared and tried as hard as you did, though. Try not to be too hard on yourself.
It was nice of you to have cared and tried as hard as you did, though. Try not to be too hard on yourself.-
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by Barry Trotter » Wednesday 16 July 2003 11:16:58pm
han,
you really shouldn't beat yourself up over this. I read your post very carefully and you did everything a good friend and a good person should and possibly could have done.
this guy is a sicko and your friends naiveity was the reason he manipulated her. He was probbably telling her all this stuff about how he loved her so much and when you're 14 thats what you want to hear. she was sucked in and nothing anyone could have said would change her view of him.
The very fact that he seduced her friend shows what kind of morals this guy has.
You should be pleased that its all over now and that your friend is finally without him.
YOu should also be proud of yourself. i think you handled the situation very maturely and really well.
Really you did everything that was possible
you really shouldn't beat yourself up over this. I read your post very carefully and you did everything a good friend and a good person should and possibly could have done.
this guy is a sicko and your friends naiveity was the reason he manipulated her. He was probbably telling her all this stuff about how he loved her so much and when you're 14 thats what you want to hear. she was sucked in and nothing anyone could have said would change her view of him.
The very fact that he seduced her friend shows what kind of morals this guy has.
You should be pleased that its all over now and that your friend is finally without him.
YOu should also be proud of yourself. i think you handled the situation very maturely and really well.
Really you did everything that was possible
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by hoopsmaster88 » Thursday 17 July 2003 2:34:46am
vivian and barry took the words right out of my mouth, there was nothing more you could do. sometimes if someone has their mind made up about something there is literally nothing anyone can do to change their mind. you were a friend to that person in the truest sense of the word, like barry said, you should be proud of yourself. and if your friend doesn't realize that what you did was good for her now, i'm sure she will later on.
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by Gwared » Thursday 17 July 2003 4:49:19pm
Hmm, the man took advantage of somebody who for very good reason is protected by law in these situations. The girl would be easy prey to somebody like him as he could prey on the under-developed mentality and twist it sufficiently to his will. By pretending to love her and understand her when all of her friends would (justifyingly), not understand why she was doing this he could convert her to his will with unfortunate ease.
You did more than most people would do if presented with this situation and thusly should be proud of yourself...without your interference this situation may have gone on longer and gotten worse. Unfortunatly sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel like it, but don't blame yourself. You did great
.
You did more than most people would do if presented with this situation and thusly should be proud of yourself...without your interference this situation may have gone on longer and gotten worse. Unfortunatly sometimes doing the right thing doesn't feel like it, but don't blame yourself. You did great
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by Mint » Thursday 17 July 2003 7:19:25pm
That is sooo sick! 
han lin, u definitely did more than most of the people would have done. That was very kind of you.
The fact that someone actually took her to court and gave her a chance - that was her final chance to come to senses. I mean if you are taken into a court you must realize that smth is seriously wrong.
han lin, u definitely did more than most of the people would have done. That was very kind of you.
The fact that someone actually took her to court and gave her a chance - that was her final chance to come to senses. I mean if you are taken into a court you must realize that smth is seriously wrong.
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by molli » Thursday 17 July 2003 7:29:53pm
I agree with the others. You did all you could, and you did great. It's very hard to change the mind of someone when they think they are right...
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by Lizzy Bennet » Friday 18 July 2003 12:26:57pm
I apologize, firstly, Han Lin, that I couldn't respond to your post earlier...as you'll see on my threads in this section, a lot's been going on, but still, I'm sorry I haven't been able to write anything until now! 
Anyway, you asked if you should have done more. I'd have to agree with everyone and say 'no'. If I'm correct in my assumption, you are roughly the age of the friend you described. Now, that's not to say that 14 year-olds are powerless or are 'children', but at that age, there's only so much you CAN do, that is within your power. But really, in regards to getting someone to do the right thing (which is a theme in a few other threads in this section) NO ONE of ANY age can MAKE someone do the best thing for themselves...you told your friend what you thought and how you felt, you obviously care about her, and when you felt it necessary you reported the situation to a TRUSTED adult--a teacher.
I emphasize 'trusted' because the man you describe has abused his status so horribly is simply turns my stomach. To abuse authority in that way...to do something so incomprehensible...something so VERY against the law is simply stunning to me. HE was the adult in this situation, NOT you and NOT your friend (or the second girl he got involved with). I'm going to say what I said to Hermione Weasley to you, Han Lin, and please don't take me the wrong way. As I'm 25, and you are 14, in my book, you are a minor and still, by law and in my mind, NOT a legal adult...you are still a child. Not a ickle child, but a child. I don't mean that condescendingly...my point is that there are REASONS there are laws protecting children against these very acts...this man may not have forced your friend or her friend to do anything, but he abused his authority and he manipulated her and took shameless advantage of her youth and naiveity. That, to me, is sickening...and that's putting it mildly.
The dictionary defines a pedophile as:
I'd say the term fits, and not only is it horrible and disgusting, there's a reason there's a law against it, as I said. You did what you could, Han Lin. When I first posted here at BaO, I was upset because I tried to act as people's 'saviours'...I tried to 'save' people from their circumstances, situations, and oftentimes, themselves...not only is it a thankless job, but NO ONE can change a situation but the person making the choices.
You can talk to someone until you're blue in the face, but they have to see a reason to change for themselves, and that's one of the hardest things to do with someone you care about--to let go. Otherwise, you take on a pronblem that isn't yours that you have no real power over. You spoke to your friend, you supported her (gave her someone she could confide in), and when needed, you told a trusted adult (a teacher)...that was your best move and good for you for doing that...if her parents already knew, it's not your responsibility to save this girl from herself, but the person I REALLY blame is HIM...HE is an adult, and he should know better! And, he is, most likely breaking the law.
This man is sick...30 year-old men have NO business with young, who aren't even legal adults, girls. Never mistake that. He was the one who is wrong on so many counts, and it disturbs me that he's not just done this once, but twice! Still, don't hold yourself accountable for his perverse, sick, illegal behaviour, nor her childish, stubborn naiveity (which, by the way, adults have, too!)...she may have made some poor choices, but he preyed on her inexperience and youth, so she's very much a victim. I hope this man is punished...otherwise, why would this behaviour stop?? But even that isn't yours to do.
My best recommendation (and this would be entirely up to you) would be to (I don't know if you're out of school for the summer or not) is to talk to your parents about this. I know a lot of folks on here may disagree with me, but a man like that needs to be stopped, and the last thing you need to do is to try to stop him yourself and risk getting hurt, but what he is doing to these girls is WRONG and could turn violent at any time. I'm not kidding. Like I said, someone his age has NO business with young girls...I'm a true believer that if you have to hide what you're doing, most likely it's something you SHOULDN'T be doing.
I really hope this gets better, Han Lin, but as I said, please don't blame yourself or feel all your efforts were in vain...you did what you could and you are NOT accountable for some sicko's behaviour nor anyone's choices or actions but your own. I hope this (rather long!) post helps and makes you feel better.
Sincerely,
Lizzy
P.S.--I'd like to also mention as I worked for the YMCA at one time, we could have lost our job over ANY inappropriate (s*xual) contents by s*xual content, I mean inappropriate discussions or behaviour. with any of the kids we worked with...not just because we were adults and they were children (not matter if they consented or not!!!), but also because we were in a position of authority and that's a clear abuse of authority (which, in the workplace, between two adults would be 's*xual harrassment'). You just don't do that (get involved with minors as an adult, ESPECIALLY if you have authority over them [you're the adult in charge for a Scout Group, you're a teacher, you're a counselor, etc.]) for SO many reasons!!!
Anyway, you asked if you should have done more. I'd have to agree with everyone and say 'no'. If I'm correct in my assumption, you are roughly the age of the friend you described. Now, that's not to say that 14 year-olds are powerless or are 'children', but at that age, there's only so much you CAN do, that is within your power. But really, in regards to getting someone to do the right thing (which is a theme in a few other threads in this section) NO ONE of ANY age can MAKE someone do the best thing for themselves...you told your friend what you thought and how you felt, you obviously care about her, and when you felt it necessary you reported the situation to a TRUSTED adult--a teacher.
I emphasize 'trusted' because the man you describe has abused his status so horribly is simply turns my stomach. To abuse authority in that way...to do something so incomprehensible...something so VERY against the law is simply stunning to me. HE was the adult in this situation, NOT you and NOT your friend (or the second girl he got involved with). I'm going to say what I said to Hermione Weasley to you, Han Lin, and please don't take me the wrong way. As I'm 25, and you are 14, in my book, you are a minor and still, by law and in my mind, NOT a legal adult...you are still a child. Not a ickle child, but a child. I don't mean that condescendingly...my point is that there are REASONS there are laws protecting children against these very acts...this man may not have forced your friend or her friend to do anything, but he abused his authority and he manipulated her and took shameless advantage of her youth and naiveity. That, to me, is sickening...and that's putting it mildly.
The dictionary defines a pedophile as:
Pedophile: An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.
I'd say the term fits, and not only is it horrible and disgusting, there's a reason there's a law against it, as I said. You did what you could, Han Lin. When I first posted here at BaO, I was upset because I tried to act as people's 'saviours'...I tried to 'save' people from their circumstances, situations, and oftentimes, themselves...not only is it a thankless job, but NO ONE can change a situation but the person making the choices.
You can talk to someone until you're blue in the face, but they have to see a reason to change for themselves, and that's one of the hardest things to do with someone you care about--to let go. Otherwise, you take on a pronblem that isn't yours that you have no real power over. You spoke to your friend, you supported her (gave her someone she could confide in), and when needed, you told a trusted adult (a teacher)...that was your best move and good for you for doing that...if her parents already knew, it's not your responsibility to save this girl from herself, but the person I REALLY blame is HIM...HE is an adult, and he should know better! And, he is, most likely breaking the law.
This man is sick...30 year-old men have NO business with young, who aren't even legal adults, girls. Never mistake that. He was the one who is wrong on so many counts, and it disturbs me that he's not just done this once, but twice! Still, don't hold yourself accountable for his perverse, sick, illegal behaviour, nor her childish, stubborn naiveity (which, by the way, adults have, too!)...she may have made some poor choices, but he preyed on her inexperience and youth, so she's very much a victim. I hope this man is punished...otherwise, why would this behaviour stop?? But even that isn't yours to do.
My best recommendation (and this would be entirely up to you) would be to (I don't know if you're out of school for the summer or not) is to talk to your parents about this. I know a lot of folks on here may disagree with me, but a man like that needs to be stopped, and the last thing you need to do is to try to stop him yourself and risk getting hurt, but what he is doing to these girls is WRONG and could turn violent at any time. I'm not kidding. Like I said, someone his age has NO business with young girls...I'm a true believer that if you have to hide what you're doing, most likely it's something you SHOULDN'T be doing.
I really hope this gets better, Han Lin, but as I said, please don't blame yourself or feel all your efforts were in vain...you did what you could and you are NOT accountable for some sicko's behaviour nor anyone's choices or actions but your own. I hope this (rather long!) post helps and makes you feel better.
Sincerely,
Lizzy
P.S.--I'd like to also mention as I worked for the YMCA at one time, we could have lost our job over ANY inappropriate (s*xual) contents by s*xual content, I mean inappropriate discussions or behaviour. with any of the kids we worked with...not just because we were adults and they were children (not matter if they consented or not!!!), but also because we were in a position of authority and that's a clear abuse of authority (which, in the workplace, between two adults would be 's*xual harrassment'). You just don't do that (get involved with minors as an adult, ESPECIALLY if you have authority over them [you're the adult in charge for a Scout Group, you're a teacher, you're a counselor, etc.]) for SO many reasons!!!
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by Barry Trotter » Friday 18 July 2003 12:38:52pm
TOtally agree with Lizzy here the man ( no he isn't a man really is he) the adult ( although he shouldn't be classed as one of those either) the 30 year old ass hole had no buisness doing that. he is sick. and you did everything you could at the time ( last summer, you were 15 right?) nothing more you could have done.
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by han lin » Friday 18 July 2003 1:08:43pm
EVerything you have said has made me feel 100 times better.
I know i'm a child and because of that i can only do 'so much'. I wasn't offended at all when you pointed that out LIzzy i am happy to be a child and i want to beable to have the rest of my childhood as a happy time.
I knew this guy and saw him around when i was out he is really really slimy and tries it on with everyone i suppose i just couldn't understand how she couldn't notice that.
thankyou all very much ( ok i have said that twice already on this thread but i really mean it)
you have no idea how much your kindness and advice means to me.
Thanks again.
I know i'm a child and because of that i can only do 'so much'. I wasn't offended at all when you pointed that out LIzzy i am happy to be a child and i want to beable to have the rest of my childhood as a happy time.
I knew this guy and saw him around when i was out he is really really slimy and tries it on with everyone i suppose i just couldn't understand how she couldn't notice that.
thankyou all very much ( ok i have said that twice already on this thread but i really mean it)
you have no idea how much your kindness and advice means to me.
Thanks again.
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by Lolita Banana » Friday 1 August 2003 5:42:19pm
Han you couldn't do more. SHe didn't want you to say anything. You had to respect her wishes. You didn't know it was going to be as serious as this. You can't blame yourself .
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