hate

[Athena Appleton]

I was recently reading a book called "Anne Frank Remembered" by Meip Geis, the woman who helped Anne Frank and her family while they were in hiding in Amsterdam during the Holocaust years. In the book, Meip says that she was raised never to hate, and felt some confusion when, as a young woman, she was faced with the Nazis. I remember when I read it the impact this had on me, and wondered if I would have had any second thoughts about hating the Nazis.

Then something happened in my own life that made me face this.

A few miles from where my house is, a woman, she could have been like me or any other woman I go to church with or see at the playground, took her three little boys out in the middle of the night, the night before Mother's Day last year, and stoned them. By stoned them, I mean, threw rocks at them until the two oldest died, and the youngest was severely, severely beaten.

Now, the papers are full of pictures and stories about this woman's trial, which is starting up, and the defense is coming from the angle of making this woman look like mom-of-the-year... up until the time she killed her kids. It makes me ill.

And when I see those headlines in the local papers every day, I want the woman to burn for eternity. Then I look inside myself, and wonder how it is that I can actually wish that on a person, even a person who committed such a horrible crime as this.

Is there ever really a situation when hate is okay? Are there some people who deserve to be hated, who deserve to have people wanting them to burn for eternity?

This is really just a musing, but it makes me wonder about my own soul, when I can look at someone who, one year ago, could have been me, and hope that they suffer forever.

[Alice I]

Feeling the hate over an action like this is not lothsome, it is human.
It's what you do with that emotion that determines your true humanity and compassion.

This woman did an abomitable thing and what ever emotions or circumstances that she was facing at the time tested her humanity and she failed.

This is where you can find comfort in the difference between yourself and this woman who murdered her children.

Even feeling justifiable hate toward an act so horrible you still pause and question your heart's true motivation.

So, yes Athena, it is ok to feel hate as that is one of the emotions that God bestowed upon the human heart;
It's what you do with it that counts.

[TDM]

in my opinion, hate is not for a person, but for what actions that they have done. such as this, if you had never heard what that woman had done, would you hate her? if Osama Bin Laden lived in disguise down the block as a guy name Frank, and you didn't know what he had done, would you hate him? no. so, maybe the woman really regrets what she has done. still, i hate what she did. anyway, that's my philosipical point of the day.[/quote]

[Mint]

oh wow that is a horrible story. X_x

But going back to "hate" - yeah, I read it somewhere that "hate" is a bad feeling that you should stay away from and u should always question ur self when u feel hatred towards someone.

But I dont believe into that, I think its unnatural for people not to hate. I dont know..... I mean what r u suppose to feel after a story like that??? really??

[Alice I]

But I dont believe into that, I think its unnatural for people not to hate. I dont know..... I mean what r u suppose to feel after a story like that??? really??

Mint you are correct.
It is wrong to invalidate a person's feeling by telling them that they can not or should not feel them.

Feelings are valid by virtue of the fact that they are being felt. Again what I maintain is that the emotion or feeling is not what is wrong it is what you do with that feeling.

Athena felt hate and questioned her heart. That is a correct and appropriate response.

The woman in the story felt some very powerful emotion and killed her children. Her emotions were not wrong it is what she did with them.

After my second child was born I had Raging post partum depression that manifested itself as unrestrained rage. My rage was not wrong, kicking a hole in the dining room wall while holding my infant in my arms was.
I got help immediatly and my boobalas are quite safe.

I guess I'm just saying that the feelings are not what we need to worry about, but the actions spurred on by those feelings.

[Athena Appleton]

I think what... I don't know if this is the right word or not, but I think what frightens me... is that there have been days since Cameron was born, and especially since Colin was born (I don't care what anyone says... having two kids isn't just double the work of having one... somehow or another, it's like the work grows exponentially ) that I have set them in their beds and walked outside, in a raging temper, or just totally strung out, and I felt guilty for doing that... There have been days when I think I can understand the frustration those moms who do that kind of thing must have felt. There's never been a day, though, that it's crossed my mind to take my children outside and throw rocks at them, or give them a bath and hold them under the water, or feed them poisoned kool-aid.

I don't know what to do with this feeling, but it seems to me that moms these days have SO MUCH pressure on them to be perfect, and I think some of the moms who finally snap and do these horrible crimes weren't ever able to express "inadequacies" (sp?) on a lower level... like, I assume it's this way everywhere, but with the majority of moms I'm around, we try to hide the little "mistakes" we commit as parents... from setting our two-year-olds in front of a tv to get housework done, or not getting the housework done at all, or feeding our toddlers fritos and kool-aid for breakfast because we just wanted them to shut up and eat the breakfast for cryin out loud... Instead, we're supposed to be "perfect" moms, and I think some women feel like they can't talk to other women about not being the perfect mom...

Do you know, if at this moment I were feeling the kind of dangerous depression or anything like that, the ONLY number I would know to call would be 911? Like, there's not a hotline that I know about (and there have been days that I've looked) where moms can call if they are just feeling overcome and need to admit to someone "I'm at my breaking point."

I know I've really gone off topic here, but my hate is useless if I don't try to at least examine what could make things better... I think there should be a kind of charity organization especially for moms, because I doubt I'm the only one who has had the feelings of just being overcome. I mean, Alice, you mentioned yourself that the rage you were feeling after having your youngest daughter was to the point of dangerous (I'm so glad you got help... I had to get help after having Cameron, but I'm coping a lot better with Colin, because I do have people to talk to). If women like us, who adore our children and have good hearts can have those feelings, can you imagine how many others really and truly need help, and how many who (like myself) don't know where they could turn?

[Alice I]

Do you know, if at this moment I were feeling the kind of dangerous depression or anything like that, the ONLY number I would know to call would be 911? Like, there's not a hotline that I know about (and there have been days that I've looked) where moms can call if they are just feeling overcome and need to admit to someone "I'm at my breaking point."

I think there should be a kind of charity organization especially for moms, because I doubt I'm the only one who has had the feelings of just being overcome. If women like us, who adore our children and have good hearts can have those feelings, can you imagine how many others really and truly need help, and how many who (like myself) don't know where they could turn?

I really wish that there was some large national organisation dedicated to young mothers. Look at the rate that stories like this one are popping up in the news, all over the country.
I do know that there are groups on a local level in most areas, usually through the local church. I was amazed at the self help resources that the church has to offer if folks knew to take advantage of it.

You said that you were one of the many who don't know where to turn. I know that we folks on the forum don't really know each other but in a way we do. That's why there are threads like this one and you can always PM me if you want to. I guess I am saying you can turn this way if you want.

[Athena Appleton]

thanks... I think I meant, like, for professional help (for the most part, if you need to contact a counselor, psychologist, or psychiatrist, you would need to call during regular business hours, and then usually wait until they can get you in their schedual... not that much help when you're having a day when you feel like kicking a hole in the wall or putting your kids in their cribs because you just don't trust yourself with them at the moment). I am very blessed that I do have people I can contact to help me through those days. I have MOPS (I recommend that everyone who is the mother of children from newborns to kindergarteners at least look into MOPS... it's helped me SO much), and I could call any one of those fifty or so women and they would come over and get my kids for a few hours, or come over and talk, or at the very least, talk over the phone. I have my mother, who I am beginning to understand is not as dumb as I once thought she was and who knows my tendencies towards depression (I've struggled with clinical depression since I was a child... so she checks up on me from time to time) and who doesn't promote the "supermom syndrome" that you get so often. And I have a wonderful husband, who, on one or two occasions, took an afternoon of vacation, or left class early, because he knew I needed him to come home and take over with the boys.

I do think, though, that there needs to be SOME kind of foundation, because I believe this is becoming an epidemic in America... like, we're constantly hearing of a mother killing her children, usually due to post-partum or clinical depression that turned to psychosis. I wonder if these moms thought there was no where to turn, like, if they admitted their feelings to anyone, even the local church, were they afraid their children would be taken away from them? I know that sounds weird, but before I realized I could talk openly about my fears sometimes when depression takes over, I thought that if I called our pastor up and said "I need help, I'm afraid I'm going to do something I'll regret with my children" that Child Protective Services would be knocking on my door to take the boys away, instead of helping me to be a better mother, I wouldn't have the kids anymore...

I dont even know how you'd go about starting a charity organization... but I've been thinking about it, and, if, someday, I were able to do it, I'm going to... I think it needs to be done.

[Alice I]

I dont even know how you'd go about starting a charity organization... but I've been thinking about it, and, if, someday, I were able to do it, I'm going to... I think it needs to be done.

That is a wonderful idea Athena and I agree something needs to be in place.
One place to look for ideas would be John Walsh. He took all of the hate and sadness of his son's death and turned that energy into the Adam Walsh Foundation helping to find lost kids. I'll look at the local library and see if he has written anything about that process. (Creating the foundation) I thought of him because he and his wife started out just like you or me. (middle class working parents) If I find a reference I'll post it.

PS: I am glad that you have a good support system. Every mom or dad for that matter needs one.