LotR discussion

[TDM]

okay, i put this here because there didn't seem to be another place for it. and i know many people here like it, and i have been converted to it after watching The Two Towers. but, now, after watching that (and have not read the books) i have a question:

elves. when that one elvish girl that is in love with Aragorn and her father are talking about her future, he said something about he would die first, and a clip appeared showing a dead Aragorn with that elvish girl standing there crying, haven't even aged a day. with this, i made the assumption that elves were immortal, with the help of other clues along the way.

BUT

when they went to fight at Helm's Deep, the elves died! well, not all of them, but the leader did, along with some nobodys. but, how can they die if they're immortal?

(BTW, other questions and stuff can go here)

[Alice I]

You must read the books DM they are fabulous. My mother read them all to us including the Hobbit (the prequil (?sp) to the trilogy) when I was a child, a chapter a night. I grew up with Arragorn and Arwen, Lord Elrond and The Lady Galaderiall (?sp).

In LOTR elves are indeed immortal if not killed. They live forever as in they do not age. They are however able to be killed by sword or arrow just like you or me but if left alone they live forever.

Arwen is the name of Arragorn's love. She is Lord Elrond's daughter making her an elven princess. (Yep Royalty, but then again Arragorn is also Royalty. He is the last of the Numinor bloodline.) The Numinorians also have very long life spans, though not immortal like the elves, Arrogorn is in his late eighties at Helms Deep.

The description that JRR Tolkien goes into of the peoples and land of Middle Earth alow you to truley picture your surroundings and understand the cultures. I strongly recommend you read it.

[TDM]

well, i do plan on reading them, but now i understand just a bit better. this summer i plan on reading them.

[paintballdecoy]

yeah, elves don't die unless killed my mortal means. they wont die from old age or anything like that. When they want to, well in a sence, die, they take one of the ships to the east.

i agree with alice, they are some of the best books in the world

[ganymede]

LOTR ROCKS!!!!!! i adore both the books and the movies!

hmmm eleves methinks can only be killed in war or of heartbreak....right?

[Groo]

i wouldnt call LotR a book series, its a magnum opus... an epic. the way Tolkien has created a world cannot be rivalled. everyone HAS to read those books.
the books are a bit dragging, as in the travelling part. i enjoyed the movies more than the books, as opposed to Harry Potter

i have a doubt though.what does the ring actually do to give you power? it is said to be the most powerful magical object but its capabilities havent been told, apart from making you invisible and turning you evil gradually.
and how did Sauron use it to control middle-earth?

[Alice I]

The One Ring could control the other rings. It was a trick by Saruman to lure all of the Middle Earth leaders into a trap.
They willingly accept the magic rings which give them the power to rule their own people effectivle but those rings of power are drawn by the One Ring. Hense the engraving on the One Ring:

One Ring to rule them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them

Does that answer your ? Groo?

[Scellanis]

ok, firstly, taking a ship into the west is not dieing, its just returning home.

They can die if they want to, Arwen does die after Aragorn dies, she basically just looses the will to live, she returns to Lothlorien and lies down and just goes to sleep. A couple of other elves have done that, the ones who married mortals.

Any elf who does die in battle doesn't leave middleearth either, they go to a place (think its called the Halls of Mandos or something) where they wait until the end and then they will be reunited with the rest of the elves. Whereas when men and other mortals die they leave Middleearth completely.

Now onto the ring. Sauron is a maia (so are Gandalf and Saruman btw) and he tricked the elves and dwarfes into forging rings of power, they hold magic that the wearer can weild. The elves used them to build their homes and keep them safe thats why when the ring is destroyed Galadriel and Elrond leave. Because they built Rivendell and Lothlorien with the power of the rings and now the one ring is destroyed all of that fades away.
The one ring that Sauron had has power over all of the other rings, when he forged it in Mount Doom he put a considerable portion of his own powers into the ring hence why he needs it to become powerful again, it is part of him which is why destroying it kills him. When he wears it he can see what their owners are doing and where they are and I think he can control them too though maybe that depends who is wearing the ring. Anyways, when someone less powerful like Frodo wears it it just stretches out his life, turning him into a wraith like the ringwraiths eventually.

[Groo]

hmm.. ok now i get it. thanks all

[pallas artemis]

What's fuzzy in my mind right now is how many rings of power are left? There are the nine, the three, the one, but of the seven given to the dwarf lords, aren't there only two or three. Don't they say in the council that several were lost completely

[Scellanis]

Ok. Well, Frodo has the one ring, we always know where that is.

The nine for mortal men are worn by the ring wraiths.

Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf have the three for the elves. (Cirdan the shipwright gave Gandalf the fire ring called Nenya)

That just leaves the 7 for the dwarf lords in their halls of stone. Well, one was taken from Moria I beleive, that could have been the one the Thorin's (dwarf in The Hobbit, Gimli is a relation of Gloin who was one of Thorin's companions) father should have had because he was captured by Sauron in his Necromancer days (Gandalf found Thorin's father in the dungeons of the Necromancer some time before The Hobbit was set). That or the ring could have been eaten by Smaug, it is said that Sauron collected some of them and the rest were lost, probably eaten by the dragons when they drove the dwarves out and stole the treasure. I don't think it ever states how many of the dwarf rings were lost or collected by Sauron.

[pallas artemis]

Did it ever bother anyone else that Galadriel says that Frodo can see her ring when others cannot because he is a fellow ring barer but Frodo never sees Gandalf's or Elrond's ring until they are at the White Harbour.

I also have to say that the first time I read the books I was a little upset at Gandalf having the ring of fire, until I read in the appendixes that he was given it by Cirdan.

Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf have the three for the elves. (Cirdan the shipwright gave Gandalf the fire ring called Nenya)

I thought Nenya was Galadriel's ring but I can't find it for sure right now.

[Scellanis]

Hmm...I was sure that was Gandalf's one...but I don't have the book with me to check, oh well, his is definately the fire one.

[TDM]

hmm...so let me get this straight:

one ring to rule them all
nine to the humans, which are worn by the dementor-like things called wraiths
seven to the dwarfs, who lost most of them
three to the elves, which they still have

is that all? and, my cousin said that the humans that were given the nine rings were turned into the wraithes because of the fact that they were corrupted with power, as Smeagle/Gollum was, as Frodo said that Smeagle/Gollum was not much different than a hobbit. so, basically, if everyone gets corrupted by the rings, why don't they destroy them all?

[Groo]

Because they cant! they just cant! even frodo after travelling thousands of miles and reaching Mount Doom didnot throw the ring into the volcano. the ring has so much temptation in it that you'll die or become a filthy creature like Gollum but you still wont keep it away from you. its almost like an addiction.

Nobody gets it into their head that the ring obeys only one master: Sauron. even Boromir wanted to take it to Gondor to protect it from Mordor's army. they think that since the ring is such a source of immense power they can use that power, but that is not the case. they just end up destroying themselves