Lily's parents...were they squibs or wizards in disguise?

[Ginny Malfoy]

If there has been discussed elsewhere, I apologize.

Petunia said her parents were so "proud to have a wizard in the family"...in fact, Petunia said that Lily practiced magic at home. If Lily and Petunia's parents were truly muggles, could Lily have practiced magic at home?

Assuming the parents were NOT muggles, they could have been squibs, making sense of why they were so proud of Lily for being a wizard. I feel, though, it's possible they were wizards and pretended to be muggles...it seems like a lot of secrets are hidden within that family...maybe Petunia knows those secrets...or maybe not...she says she's the only one that saw Lily for what she was ("a freak")...but maybe that suggests Petunia is a squib and was jealous of Lily being a wizard like their parents?

What do you think? Better still, if their parents were wizards in disguise, why were they disguising that fact? And from whom?

[sea-plunder]

that was good observing ginny. mmm i think that her parents were muggles and were just proud of their daughter for being a wizard.... but if they weren't muggles i think they were wizards in disguise and they might have disgraced themselves in the wizarding world or sutton

[Ferrus]

But if Lily´s parents were wizars in hiding (for whatever reason) why where they "proud" of Lily? Wouldn´t they have simply taken for granted that thay would have Wizard siblings...

[Athena Appleton]

I've taken the position that Lily's parents are squibs... so they would be hoping and hoping that somehow their children would have magical talent, but they wouldn't actually have magical talent themselves.

[Jotomicron]

If there has been discussed elsewhere, I apologize.

Actually it has: http://www.broomsticksandowls.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2614

If Lily and Petunia's parents were truly muggles, could Lily have practiced magic at home?

That is point ed by some as an error. We know that the Weasleys (pure-blood wizards) aren't allowed to make magic at home (remeber Fred or Goerge: "I'm always hoping they forget to give us this advice."?). How could Lilly be able to do that? That's why there are some who say it's a mistake

[Athena Appleton]

does it say that she was actually able to practice magic? the only exact phrase I can remember is that she came home from Hogwarts with her pockets full of frog spawn (ew!)

also, something about the underage magic thing I don't get... what actually constitutes magic? i mean, small children have magical toys (Fred, I think it was, had a toy broomstick, but it might have been Ron), does playing with those toys mean that they're using magic? Ron is appalled when he has to clean the bedpans without using magic, so do wizarding children use magic to clean their rooms and do other chores? What happens if a tiny child (like Kevin at the World Cup) uses magic out of curiosity while the parents are busy?

[Emma'I'm a real witch']

That has always bothered me aswell about underage magic. What about when they use it unintentionally aswell??

The only thing I can liken it to is how children (in the muggle world) are allowed to ride bikes, and electric scooters and such like but not cars, because you have to be of a certain age. Maybe they can do tiny little charms and such but not big spells.
I just had another thought, when Harry repels the dementors he is reprimanded for the Patronus charm and no one mentions the fact that he uses 'Lumos'. Surely if the MoM were trying to make it sound like he'd been as bad as he could possible be then they would of pulled everything up against him. Wouldn't they??

[highsorcerer]

Lumos was also used by Hermoine during the Quidditch World Cup aftermath. Fred and George made a lot of noise in their room while inventing, though I suppose it could be a mixture of potions and plain cooking to make ton-tounge toffey.

There are numerous times Harry used magic before learning of the magical world, plus, besides the dementor attack in OOTP, unintentionally blew up his aunt (without a wand) in POA.

[Nobby]

i think that only spells and charms that have a certain degree of magnitide constitues to using underage magic! i think it id the use of a wand INTENTIONALLY! the little boy kevin at the world cup probably didnt know what he was doing and harry didn't intentionally use lumos in Ootp and didnt use his wand- same with the disappearing glass incident in PS.

With potions you don't have to use a wand so, does this count as underage magic?With hermoine's use of the lumos charm i think that the ministry was in such disaray at the time, they didn't notice or yet again maybe the lumos charm doesn't have that certain degree of magnitide!

[Alice I]

Nobby you have a point but how much higher up on the scale is a hover charm to the lumos spell?

[Phaerie]

Maybe it depends on whether there are muggles present when the spell is performed (Hermione's lumos charm was performed with only wizards present). As this breeches another law as well. (can't remember what exactly buit its to do with keeping the wizarding world a secret.)

Also it may depend on how acurately the minastry can localise a wizard when they've done magic illegally. Harry is the only wizard in his village, so any magic done is quite likely to be done by him. Or maybe each wand has a signature mark, so if a wand owned by an under aged wizard is used it is detected. Albeitly this does not account for why the hover charm was picked up.

The only reason harry wasn't prosecuted for "blowing up" his aunt was because the whole wizarding world believed sirius black was out to kill him.

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Well, I don't think young witches or wizards are classified as such until that magical quill at hogwarts decides you are magical and get to come to school there. So I don't think the MoM would be able to get involved, and surely for all those muggle-born children doing magic accidentaly, their parents wouldn't appreciate a MoM owl dropping a letter saying no underage magic that you can't even control yet.

[pandora315]

I think maybe we'll never quite understand the underage magic rules, we just don't ahve the xperience in the wizarding world neccesary The only thing I can compare it to would be people 2000 years from now looking back and trying to decipher our road rules. Like- In some states in the US you have to be 16 to drive, in some 15, in some 13 and here in Australia where I'm now living you have to be 18. Then, sometimes while driving you can make a turn on red. But only a lefthand turn, and only if its a 3way light, not a four way with an arrow.....anyone see where I'm coming from?

As for Lily's parents being Squibs its an interesting thought and possible I guess but one things about it bugs me. People of pure blood decent marry only other pure bloods and seem to have alot of knowledge about families. Snape is in Slytherin house and we know that Slytherin usually only takes Pure-bloods so it would make sesne that Snape would have a good idea of different wizarding families. When Harry sees the scene with his dad, his mom, and Snape, Snape calls Lily a mudblood. Lily could only be a mudblood if both her parents were muggles. Squibs arn't muggles as Snape would know being from a magical family, because they come from all magic families, so I can't seem him calling Lily a mudblood if she was the product of two squibs, or even one squib. See what I'm saying? This however brings up another question I have. What is James Potter? Is he pure-blood? Sirius never mentions him as being on the tapestry or being related in any way to himself. He mentions the Weasleys and how he is related to them. So does that mean that James was a mudblood as well?

[Jotomicron]

does it say that she was actually able to practice magic? the only exact phrase I can remember is that she came home from Hogwarts with her pockets full of frog spawn (ew!)

I think Petunia also says that Lilly was transfigurating tea cups into mice... I might be wrong, though.

Hmm... pandora, you have a point! Sirius told Harry pureblood families were all connected, but he hasn't talke about James. Now, he's not in the tapestry cause he seemed a good guy... obviously, the Black family would have taken out the Potters from the tapestry.
But then, who do they put there? I mean. James's parents might have been magical, and so could their own parents... But if there was a muggleborn wizard somewhere, they wouldn't be considered pureblood, right?

[pandora315]

Yes, Petunia says something about transforming teacups into mice. The way I saw it was that only underage wizards are restricted from doing magic but you are an of-age wizard at 17, and still at school. So Lily could easily have come home from school and tranfigured tea-cups into mice without breaking the underage wizard law, or the Statute of Secrecy because the SoS only applies to muggles not knowing about the magical world.