Two prophecys in one? (spolier)

[AccioNiffler]

I think that Boycey's idea about Neville being involved is a good idea. Neville is definitly going to play a bigger role in the next couple of books. I also think that Harry will die in the last book. And I dont think that people should be so upset over it. Would it be SO bad if Harry dies to save humanity from Voldemort?

[Friar Tuck]

Regarding the second prophecy:

How do we know that it already hasn't been fulfilled? No one knows the birthdays of certain characters that have died at the hands of Voldermort( Cedric & Sirius stn out in particular). Of course, no one would know about the prophecy at all, because only the one the prophecy is about can open it, and Harry didn't no about it until near the end of his 5th year. But then again, the prophecy can always occur more than once.

I do think Voldie will be killed at/near the end of Book Seven, because I just couldn't see Harry dying because he is the main character (although Buffy was the main character on BtVS, and she died twice and lived to tell about, another story altogether). I do think the members of the DA, especially those who accompanied Harry to the DoMyst will be key players in the final battle, and I won't rule out one or more of them becoming incapable of fighting (death, permanent ailments like those of the Longbottoms, Lockhart, and Frederick Bode).

[Sacred Guardian]

ok, here's how i take it, the part about one must die at the hands of the other, to me means that one will survive and one will not, and the thing about neville makes sense, except, that dumbledore said that the prophecy was about him, because voldemort chose it to be by attacking harry, and now harry has the power of love from his mother, which is somthing that voldemort does not have

[Heratio_Fonzarelli]

i think its only one person whom the prophesy is describing. whether its harry or neville, is unknown.

neville
#1 b/c of his improvement as a wizard. #2 he has a desire for revenge (thoughts/memories leave deeper scars). #3 Getting a wand that's designed for him could really turn his powers on. #4. harry doesn't seem to be wanting to get rid of voldy, he just wants to survive. #5 harrry doesn't believe that he's the one

harry
#1 same wand as voldy #2 voldy can't seem to kill him #3 scar that seems to connect the two conciously 4. marking as equal transferred powers and conciousness but harry has powers that was inherited from his family too (power he has not)

[Holly Golightly]

I understand the reasons for it possibly being Neville, but I still dont' think so! I'm putting my trust in DD, and he said that it's Harry!!!

I think that Neville will certainly have a big part to play in the last 2 books though, and I think that him getting his own wand will greatly improve some of his magical abilities, esp in Charms, and possibly Transfiguration! (I still think that he will be scared in Potions, till he finally, if ever, stands up to Snape!!!)

[han lin]

i don't think neville will change very much in the way he is. he's spent too much of his life like it, and if he changes it'll be very slowley over a long period of time.

Having said that....
i think neville's character will blossom as the series continues and he will become mors confident and better at what he does.he may find out about the prophesy and think it may be him, (he could try to protect harry) and could go to find Voldie. maybe he will weaken LV in a way which harry will be to exploit or maybe neville going will pursuade harry to go anf duell after all.

[Holly Golightly]

I like the idea of Neville finding out about the prophecy han lin! Awesome! Hrmmm, damn, jsut as I was writing that up, I though of something... how would he find out about it?

Only a few people know what it says... DD (who I can't see telling Neville) Harry, and Voldie and that person in the HOgs Head who overheard it know half of it... Prof T doesn't remember giving it (I woudl assume, just like the 2nd one...) So how would he find out???

Maybe Harry recites it in his sleep one night?

Damn, can't think of a plausable way, but I really like the idea! Then Neville shows how brave he really is, and goes after Voldie! I think it woudl be excellent!

[Meg Boyd]

I'm still hung up on the inclusion of Neville in the prophecy. Stuff like that in a JKR book is no accident! Yet, I don't feel like he could be the choosen one, you know? However, Neville IS getting stronger, whether we want him or not, during DA meetings he was flying through the material like soap, but I feel like it wasn't because of LV, it was because of the Death Eaters....perhaps Neville is meant to be the end of all of LV evil little followers...????? He seems focused to only get the DE, not LV...but maybe i'm wrong

As for two prophecies, hey its possible, but I look at it differently. The first part kinda describes why ?Harry? is the choosen one. The second part describes the confrontation. Either must die at the hand of the other means LV is the only one who can kill Harry? and Harry? is the only one who can kill LV>>>neither can LIVE while the other survives. Yes bot LV and Harry are breathing and sustaining life, but how great a LIFE do either of them have? So far Harry's life has been ok if that, but lately, as LV gets stronger, Harry's life gets worse...as they both get stronger, I'm sure there lives get worse and worse until...pop...the final showdown boils over...as for Harry dying, it is a major possiblity.I'm not saying LV will live, I'm saying perhaps they will die at the same time, killing each other???? I mean what better for honor and glory of the character...dying to save all of humanity. I mean there is no 'what if' or guessing 'what ever happened to'...its just wow, he died for them...*tear. If Harry dies killing LV, he'll be forever be etched in the memories of everyone (readers and character's alike) as this wonderful teenager who lived and died to save the world...the ultimate ending...

[Angel]

Just thought of something. Thought i saw it mentioned somewhere that after the 7th book JK will do a short summary of what happens the characters. I.e. Ron becomes Quiddach professional! etc. and one of the characters will go on to become a teacher at Hogwarts. Anyway my point is if Harry dies and Voldermort survives and returnes to full power it's unlikely that wizards will have jobs like teachers and stuff... the whole wizard world will be at war and daily normal life would be suspended. So if she's saying that someone becomes a teacher then to me it looks like that at some point Voldermort will be defeated. Sorry if this is a bit off the point.

[Iluvatar]

I rather liked Meg Boyd's idea and it got me thinking about that particular part in the prophecy "neither can LIVE while the other Survives"

I asked myself: What is meant by the terms live and survives?
I told myself that to live must mean to live a real life whereas survive implies just barely living.

I took this reasoning a bit further and thought that Harry and Voldemort might be sharing the same life source, source of life energy or whatever you want to call it. The prophecy could then be interpreted as saying that neither can "live" or fully exploit the life source while the other "survives". Ever since Voldemort fell, Harry has been using the greater part of this energy while Voldemort has been parasiting it in order to just barely survive.

Now Voldemort has returned and is struggling with Harry as to who will dominate the life source. In the final confrontation, one of them will permanently eliminate the other and therefore be able to "live" a full life as they won't have to share the life source with the other.

Voldemort may have known this (I don't know how but this is just speculation) and he may have protected himself from death for this reason.

One could also think that Harry's scar might be the visible proof for this, and that his telepathic connection with Voldemort might be the result of this sharing.

Tell me what you think.

[AccioNiffler]

I'm still hung up on the inclusion of Neville in the prophecy. Stuff like that in a JKR book is no accident! Yet, I don't feel like he could be the choosen one, you know? However, Neville IS getting stronger, whether we want him or not, during DA meetings he was flying through the material like soap, but I feel like it wasn't because of LV, it was because of the Death Eaters....perhaps Neville is meant to be the end of all of LV evil little followers...????? He seems focused to only get the DE, not LV...but maybe i'm wrong

I agree that Neville is somehow involved. Personally, I think taht Harry and Voldemort will die (I know its sad but I think it's what will happen). Just because the prophecy say thaey can both live at the same times, it doesnt mean they cant both be dead. Maybe Harry will realize this, and realize that he has to sacrifice himself to save everyone else . Maybe when he realizes this he confides in Neville about the prphecy. Meaning that once Harry is gone, Neville has to continue what's been started. He's kind of like a clean up crew, for lack of better words. This is just an idea though, there really no way of anyone finding out before the 6th and 7th books. Unless any of you can use legilimancy to get into JKRs head and find out!

[Holly Golightly]

Well, I do like the idea, and I hope you dont' think that I am being harsh, but I think that's just a bit too in depth for what is primarily a children's book...

I knowthat alot of things are getting deep and dark, and people dying like you would not expect for a kid's book... but I think that that theory is just a little too much... sorry

But hey, it doesn't mean that I'm right tho!!!

[Meg Boyd]

Yea for you Iluvatar! You understood exactly what I was meaning to say and you explained my babblings so well! Awesome!!!! Its nice to see other people who kinda understand what I am saying...but yet again its only an opinion and I might not be right either. However, I loved your idea on the one life source. If that is true, than Harry would be his equal because...well...they have the same life source...this also might reflect a same life source by the fact of all of their similarites....like they are conected through how very similar their lives are

Perhaps LV and HP are inverses of each other or like a positive and a negative or a base and acid....to get rid of the other you must sacrifice your self???? When you put -12 and +12 together you get 0...nothing, the negative is gone and yet the positive had to disappear to make the negative disappear too...to neutralize and acid, the base must combine with it to make water...both are gone to make the product better...i feel like i'm babbling, does any body understand what i am saying????

I liked AccioNiffler's comment on Neville doing a clean-up job, that's first rate grade A. Can't you see it, Harry dies in a sacrifice to rid the world of ultimate evil and his loyal friend Neville continues to help the world...actually, sorry, but that's rather biblical...i'm not sure if i'm allowed to talk about that kind of stuff on here...but its kinda like when Jesus died on the cross and his followers, especially Peter, kept going with his word...sorry if that offends anybody in away way, but its just my opinion...

Try not to give me too hard a time about this, and i'm sorry if i offended anyone...sorry...but just remember its only my opinon, and smile....have a super day?????

[Colin]

While rereading book 5 - for the 6th time - I saw something. I missed it the first FIVE times I read it.

I pertains to which boy the prophacy refers to. Harry or Neville.

In the big fight in the Death Chamber, Harry throws the Prophacy to Nevelle. It is obvius that Neville caught it because the Prophacy fell from his pocket when his robe split open.

Everyone and their dog knows that only the subject of the Prophacy can touch the thing. Both Harry and Neville touched it. Neither died or went mad.

The yellowed label says:

S.P.T to A.P.W.B.D

Dark Lord

and (?) Harry Potter


It seems to me that Both Harry and Neville still have the potential to become the Voldemort-killer. Harry got the Mark, but Neville could still be potent, even without the Mark and Blood.

How do you feel about this?

[Lizzy Bennet]

Wow! This is a really neat thread...I hadn't thought of that, Colin...you're right...Neville should have gone mad if he didn't belong to that prophecy and the very fact it had a question mark on it may mean that no one is sure who the true equal is: Harry or Neville.

Meg and Iluvatar...I love your ideas as well! I hope it doesn't mean that Harry has to die in order to rid the world of Voldemort! Do you think that's what it means? If it does, where would Neville fit in? I still worry that Neville will die. I think it'll be terribly sad if either Neville or Harry dies, particularly Harry as the whole series is about him, but Neville (and of course, in my book, Lupin!) dying would be horribly sad as well.

Meg...I don't think you have to worry about biblical references...I can't see how that'd be offensive to anyone. If you accused people of being satanists for reading Harry Potter, I think that'd be another story entirely, but that's certainly NOT what you were doing! Getting slightly off-topic, I think it's great we have some religious people on here (Meg, if I may say so, Elijahrain, FriarTuck, etc.), and I, personally, find nothing offensive about them or their posts...if I did, I feel that'd make me just as small-minded and judgemental as those (religious and not) who condemn people who read Harry Potter.

Back to the topic at hand, I wonder how Harry and Neville will work together in future books...I worry what Neville will do if he finds out about the prophecy...all I can say is Bellatrix better WATCH OUT...she's got two VERY angry young men on her tail!


~ Lizzy