Is Snape the Original Snape?

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Is Snape the Original Snape?

Postby highsorcerer » Monday 5 January 2004 9:06:24am

In the quest to figure out the mystery of Professor Snape, I've given the matter some thought. Everybody seems to agree on the basics; he was a Slytherin who became a death eater, then something happened to make him trusted by Dumbledore and become a spy for the OotP.

Anyway, after I saw the film Paycheck the other day, I tried a new approach - working backwards, and paying attention to the little things. If you haven't seen the film, the relevent high points are this - Ben Affleck plays a reverse-engineer; somebody who disassembles an existing product and changes it into a new, competing one that doesn't infringe on the original's patents. After each job, he has his memory of it erased to protect himself and the company in case he was ever investigated. He goes on a three-year job that he can retire on - he gets paid in stock options. When he comes out, he checks and find the options are worth 91 million dollars - but he had surrendered them completely a few weeks before his job ended. In addition, his envelope of personal items wasn't the one he had left - it contained 19 mundane items that he had apparently traded his 91 million dollars for. However, the items start to become extremely useful - the first three save his life and allows him to make an impossible escape from the FBI. The fourth item sets things in motion which makes him realize he past self had given up his paycheck to force his future self to pay attention to the objects. The fifth item - a fortune from a fortune cookie indirectly tells him what his last project was (a way to see into the future - at the exact time he's in a restaurant, powerball lottery numbers are revealed - and the lucky numbers on the back of his fortune are the exact numbers, in the exact order of the numbers picked for the lottery).

I enjoyed the film, but it gave me a new idea of how to approach the Snape issue. I started to consider what some of the little things might mean, such as the following questions:

1) Why were Snapes memories in Dumbledore's pensive?
2) Why would Snape be reliving painful and rather insignifigant memories?
3) Why did Harry get all bad memories out of Snape during occulmency?
4) How did Dumbledore deduce the situation of Moody / Crouch Jr. in GOF?
5) Why is Dumbledore so sure Snape is on his side?
6) Why is Voldemort so sure Snape is on his side?
7) Why did Snape want to avoid talking to Karkaroff about the dark mark?
8) What did we really learn from Moody's wizard photograph of the original OotP?
9) Why won't Dumbledore allow Snape to teach DADA?
10) Why didn't Snape warn Dumbledore Voldemort was back when the dark mark burned?

I decided on the following answers:

1) There was no choice in the matter - Snapes memories had to be preserved and recalled later.
2) Snape's insignifigant and painful memories had to be viewed and at the forefront of his memory.
3) Because they were at the forefront of Snape's mind, just in case Harry broke through.
4) Dumbledore knew all about that particular trick.
5) Because Snape is a loyal member of the OotP.
6) Because Snape is a loyal death eater.
7) Because he was afraid of giving the wrong answer.
8) The fate of every member of the original OotP - except one.
9) It's too dangerous to allow Snape to teach it.
10) He didn't know.

What does that add up to? Severus Snape was captured by Albus Dumbledore. His capture was suppressed to allow a member of the OotP to replace him, becoming a perfect inside spy for the Order. Snapes memories were extracted into Dumbledore's pensive for preservation, and inserted into a loyal OotP member. In most cases, Snape's memories and personality are dominant, allowing him to become the perfect mole. Under certain circumstances, the original resurfaces, revealing information to the OotP. The physical form of Snape is maintained through polyjuice potion, or the replacement was a metamorphmage like Tonks.

Who would Dumbledore trust with such an important mission? The same person who's fate is a complete mystery, but the mystery is glossed over in such as way that nobody stopped to think about it. The replacement Snape is none other than Aberforth Dumbledore; Albus Dumbledore's brother.

The real key was figuring out why Snape's memories were in Dumbledore's pensive. There was a chance that Harry could reverse the process on Aberforth / Snape, so his forefront memories (the ones Harry were mostly likely to break into) were reinforced with pensive visits of strong painful memories (to get Harry to back off, and because many painful memories are stronger than good ones). Aberforth / Snape was afraid to talk to Karkaroff because he might say the wrong thing, particularly the symptoms of the dark mark reappearing. Review the passage, and every signifigant detail about the mark returning was provided by Karkaroff. It wouldn't have burned on his arm when Voldemort returned. With the details Harry and Karkaroff provided, they could fake the mark later - several hours after the event.

Allowing Snape to teach DADA would be dangerous, particularly if the Snape personality was dominant. He might discover via teaching that his memories were altered, particularly if the Aberforth personality was deliberately suppressed except under certain circumstances. That could blow his cover. As for why Aberforth didn't return after the original fall of Voldemort, well, Albus knew that he'd be back, and preserved his secret weapon and spy.
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Postby Mistress Siana » Monday 5 January 2004 2:18:37pm

hm...hmmmmmmmmmmm...Oh my God!! :o
As with JKR, nothing's really far-fetched, I'd say that theory makes perfect sense...especially as many people, me included, have been wondering about the metamorphmagus thing. Why was it introduced? It's for certain that it will be of a greater importance later, so that might be a possibility. Great thinking, highsorcerer! But what happened to the original Snape, then?
There is, however, one thing I don't like about that theory. He's such an important character and even has quite a lot of fans. I think many readers would feel kinda cheated if he suddenly proved...well, non-existant. I would, at least...

*she puzzled three hours till her puzzler was sore" hehe
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Postby Augusta Longbottom » Monday 5 January 2004 3:04:30pm

I like this theory Highsorcerer. It's complex and there are so many variables that led you to this conclusion that it may not be right on the mark, (we'll have to wait and see), but it is a good angle to think about.

This doesn't change your theory in any way, but the reason Snapes thoughts were in Dumbledore's Pensieve is because Snape borrowed the pensieve prior to his occlumency lessons with HP and he placed those memories there himself. I suppose I could be wrong but I just finished rereading book 5 last week and I think this was quite clear. With that said, your theory isn't changed in any way.

I'd totally overlooked the details of #8 -- that we hadn't learned the fate of just one member. Even upon rereading the book, I must've just went right past it without realizing some significance...hmmph...I hate when I miss important key details!

Good theory...complex, but good
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Postby highsorcerer » Monday 5 January 2004 5:29:29pm

That's just the point - Rowlings (through Moody) slipped a fast one on everybody. Moody talked about the people in the Original Order of the Phoenix and what happened to them in one way or another. Some died, some Harry personnally knew (and a few were brushed over simply by saying Harry had met them during his stay at Grimmualt place), but when it came to Aberforth Dumbledore, Moody only says that he's a strange bloke, and he only met him one time before continueing.

Suppose, Moody had said "I only met him one time; never learned what happened to him". His disappearance would have been flagged as a mystery we'd have been speculating about. It's possible Moody was in on the secret, though I doubt it (his reaction about Snape in the trial scene in the pensive indicates he doesn't).

As far as what happened to the original Snape, perhaps he was mortally wounded during his capture.
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Postby menotyoo » Wednesday 7 January 2004 1:21:33am

That certainly would give DD a strong reason to trust him, and I would love if this theory turned out to be true- even in part - it would be such a great twist! However, wouldn't DD have more control over Snape than it appears that he does? I'm not saying Snape/Aberforth isn't loyal, but if this is true, DD wouldn't have made anyone suspicious, i don't think, if he had altered his personality a little bit. i.e make him nicer on Harry? but this could be to get on draco's good side, and thus lucius' good side.
I had always been suspicious of Snape though. If he was a spy for DD. And DD new that Lilly and James were in danger. Snape would know that Wormtail was a traitor. Yet he never told the OotP. We know that the other Death Eaters, upon returning as a group for the 1st time, didn't seem surprised to see Wormtail or eachother , so they knew he who else were DE's. Was it out of dislike for the Potters or love for Voldemort that led Snape/Aberforth to hold his tongue?

PS. maybe polyjuice potion or being a metamorphmagus keeps ALL traits of the other person, this would include the dark mark, so they wouldn't need to fake it.
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Postby jarvan49 » Wednesday 7 January 2004 6:47:14pm

This theory is very exciting! I'm just re-reading OotP and I just read the part where moody shows harry the picture. As i was reading the part, i did wonder where dumbledore's brother was. this theory may answer that question.

Now, i cant wait for the next book. I hope it isnt years down the road, but only months.
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Postby Mistress Siana » Thursday 8 January 2004 12:45:58am

menotyoo, since the DEs didn't seem to be surprised when they saw Wormtail and not Sirius, I've wondered why the spy that informed DD about LV having found out about the Potters' whereabouts didn't also tell him who the real traitor was?

I don't think a member of the OotP would treat Harry the way Snape does, and he wouldn't have stopped occlumency lessons.
Additionally, I cannot see the point in trying to explain exactly why Snape is the was he is (bad family, treated badly at school etc.), only to reveal that he actually doesn't exist at all.
I reather like the theory that Aberforth is the owner of the Hog's head.
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Postby choki » Thursday 8 January 2004 4:28:01pm

Aberforth was ridiculed for some wrongdoing, right? I remembered Albus did said that (or was it Albus)

Going be highsorcerer's theory that Snape's subconcious was taken over by Aberforth. So where is Aberforth? Did he still exists as an individual or there are 2 Aberforths (one being inside of Snape's body?)
I am not sure how pensieve works, but is it possible to replicate one's memory? If not, the Aberforth that is supposed to be living in his own body would not be the exact Aberforth...

Whatever it is, it will be cool to see Snape fighting back his control over Aberforth's and Albus wouldn't know a single bit.

Indeed highsocerer, you have amazing posts!
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Postby Phinea Rogue » Thursday 8 January 2004 8:55:04pm

OMG :eek: what a theory! That's scary. Sure it would be very interesting, but as a Snape fan I'd rather see him dead than non-existent. Anyway, if I remember right, Snape did warn Dumbledore about Voldemort's return. It was in the pensieve after Harry was looking into it. Such a fight - Snape trying to gain back "himself" from Aberforth would be amazing.
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Postby Mistress Siana » Thursday 8 January 2004 11:36:08pm

I'm a Snape fan as well and really hope he's truly existant...but as Phinea said, that fight would even intrigue me.
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Postby highsorcerer » Friday 9 January 2004 12:02:51am

Actually, I figured out the flaw in the theory - the Maurader Map. Unless the Maurader Map can be fooled, Snape is still Snape.
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Postby highsorcerer » Friday 9 January 2004 12:15:43am

I have to reverse myself yet again... I've checked GoF where I though Harry might have seen Snape on the map, and he didn't - just his office. I'll check up on other uses of the map, but if Snape has never shown up on it, the fact is signifigant in and of itself.
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Postby Augusta Longbottom » Friday 9 January 2004 12:52:36am

HighSorcerer,
I will have to look into it as well, but I believe somewhere at some point in time, Snape does show up on the Marauder's Map. Was it when Harry is trying to go to Hogsmeade one weekend in PoA...he sees Neville's name on the map and Snapes? or in GoF prior to when "Moody" takes the map from Harry on the stairwell that night (I haven't read this book in a while...I'm reading it now and haven't gotten this far so bear with me) doesn't harry see snapes name on the map in this chapter?

As I read this I will continue to be on the lookout for this and will let you know if I find a spot where Snape's name actually appears on the map.
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Postby choki » Friday 9 January 2004 10:49:29am

Wait a second...why did Snape have to take the polyjuice potion or some other methods to be Snape? And I don't quite get highsorcerer theory at the second time reading it.

highsorcerer wrote:Severus Snape was captured by Albus Dumbledore. His capture was suppressed to allow a member of the OotP to replace him, becoming a perfect inside spy for the Order. Snapes memories were extracted into Dumbledore's pensive for preservation, and inserted into a loyal OotP member. In most cases, Snape's memories and personality are dominant, allowing him to become the perfect mole. Under certain circumstances, the original resurfaces, revealing information to the OotP. The physical form of Snape is maintained through polyjuice potion, or the replacement was a metamorphmage like Tonks.


If part (and perhaps most) of Snape's memory was taken out of him and replaced by a loyal OotP member, why should Snape's memory be dominant? Part of Snape's memory should have been replaced by that loyal OotP member's (Aberforth's) memory. In that way, Aberforth will be 'living' inside of Snape's body. Therefore, he has no reason to turn himself into Snape...he is already 'Snape' without using polyjuice potion or metamorphagetical means (if there is such a word)

One way for Aberforth to know about Snape's memory is through the pensive. He will be able to view it the same way Harry did with Dumbledore's memory, making him the perfect mole as well.
Marauder's Map might not be able to detect Aberforth but Snape simply because that body belongs to Snape and not Aberforth.
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Postby highsorcerer » Saturday 10 January 2004 11:01:50am

It's not a bad twist on the idea. I'm a theorist, and rather a mystery addict. I really don't think my questions are bad ones, particularly concerning the pensive, or the fate of Aberforth Dumbledore. However, since Severus Snape appeared on the Maurader's Map during PoA, we have to accept that he was, indeed, at the location given by the map (which, I've also looked up, and confirmed - it's the only place he's ever shown up) - or that the Marauder's Map can be fooled. Polyjuice potion won't fool it - I thought it was clear that Crouch Jr. / Moody was shocked by the map because it showed him for what he really was, and took it away from Harry under the guise of borrowing it.

Of course, if the Maurader's Map always shows where people are, and can't be fooled (even Dumbledore was fooled by James, Sirius, and Peter becoming animagi, no mean feat!), then it is always possible that Snape IS exactly at the point indicated in PoA. After all, Moody would have shown up in his own office on the map.

I'm willing to totally give up on this theory if the facts contradict it. I mean, I came up with it, so it's not like I'm trying to tear down somebody else's idea. The Maurader's Map is a serious flaw in the theory, and either has to be explained, or the whole theory is flawed.
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