The Lost Prophecy

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

"THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD APPROACHES...BORN TO THOSE WHO HAVE THRICE DEFIED HIM, BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES...AND THE DARK LORD WILL MARK HIM AS HIS EQUAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE POWER THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT...AND EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE OTHER FOR NEITHER CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD WILL BE BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES..."

Freaky, eh? I thought this could just be a thread for prophecy discussion, but here's some other stuff I've been thinking: I don't think this prophecy should be taken for face value. I've been analyzing it and the only thing my brain can come up with at the moment is the part about "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives," the "other" could mean someone else. And..."must die at the 'hand' of the other," remember Wormtail's hand? That could play a part in it. Anyways...

[Phinea Rogue]

...AND EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE OTHER FOR NEITHER CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...

Neither can live while the other survives... this sentence has been on my mind since reading OotP. I'm not a native English speaker, so can someone explain to me what exactly does it mean? Because the way I read it, I see two possible explanations. 1. One of them has to die so that the other one can live, and 2. if one dies, the other one dies too. I asked my friend and he said that both are possible, but I don't know. Any linguists here?

[peterbb]

I'm pretty sure the first one is correct. Either Harry or LV must be killed by the other one.

[Emma'I'm a real witch']

The only thing that bothered me about this was the 'neither can live while the other survives' bit. That just seems a bit extreme to me, Harry has managed to live for what will be 16 years at the start of the next book, LV is however old. So they've both managed to live for quite a while so far while the other survived. What would happen if they just never had a confrontation??????

[Alice I]

The way I have interepreted this is that while Harry has been alive it has not been a terrific life.
They are connected to each other and can feel each other's strong emotions.
Harry can not truly live his life while Voldemort survives and vice-versa.

[Emma'I'm a real witch']

I think what I mean (I confuse myself) is that will the final battle be some sort of fate final thing and not Harry or LV induced?

[TDM]

well, it will ultimately come down to that, a major showdown between HP and LV. a lot of people thought it would anyway, but this now confirms our beliefs.

[Ferrus]

Harry can not truly live his life while Voldemort survives and vice-versa

That´s exactly how I interpreted that line. Harry won´t be able to have a complete, full, satisfying life untill Voldemort is killed by him. And vice-versa

[Gypsy]

I think Evil Wizard Petting Zoo has the right idea, about the 'hand' being wormtail, but not in the sense of his silver hand but him being Voldemort's servant or 'hand'. Maybe at the final showdown Wormtail will have the power to coose who lives and who dies, and it would be then that his debt to Harry would be repaid.

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

I'm not even sure if I believe my own theory about Wormtail (Wormtail being the "other"). But Wormtail is kind of in the middle of Voldemort and Harry. Wormtail owes Harry his live and in a way Voldemort owes Wormtail his life because Wormtail helped return Voldemort to his body. This is complicated.

[Athena Appleton]

The way I have interepreted this is that while Harry has been alive it has not been a terrific life.
They are connected to each other and can feel each other's strong emotions.
Harry can not truly live his life while Voldemort survives and vice-versa.

I think I definately agree with this.

"THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD APPROACHES...

Does "vanquish" actually mean "kill"? Could there be any other solution at the end of the books than that Voldemort kicks the bucket?

BORN TO THOSE WHO HAVE THRICE DEFIED HIM, BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES...

lalala neville...

AND THE DARK LORD WILL MARK HIM AS HIS EQUAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE POWER THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT...

lalala nevermind, neville...

AND EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE OTHER

EWPZ, you know I love ya, but I really don't think this hand reference has anything to do with Wormtail. I do think that Wormtail's hand will come into killing somebody (Lupin), but I don't think this is a hand reference to him.

FOR NEITHER CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...

what alice said

THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD WILL BE BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES..."

k... here's my way-out-there theory that I absolutely admit is most likely not going to happen: The first line and the last line are talking about two different people. Don't ask, I don't want to be shot down, and I know I will be shot down if you ask.

[Groo]

Does "vanquish" actually mean "kill"? Could there be any other solution at the end of the books than that Voldemort kicks the bucket?

Vanquish doesnt actually mean kill but i think Voldy would be killed in the end and by Harry. there cant be an alternative

hmm.. i dont think the hand means Wormtail, just a normal expression

[Dumbledores Master]

On JK`s official website (made by her) it says there will not b that kind of mythilogical storyline following thing kidof*runs away*
Basically what I mean is WORMTAIL WON`T KILL LUPIN

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Yeah I know the Wormtail "hand" thing is far-fetched, just trying to think outside the box. Anyways, my point with all this is that I think the prophecy could be a riddle (we know JKR is good at writing good ones) and if we figure it out, the solution will be "the heart of it all."

[Ferrus]

Athena: Vanquish means "defeat", but then the prophesy says the "either must die at the hand of the other" bit, so it looks like harry (or whoever) will have to kill Voldemort.

The thing that sort of bugs me is this: The prophesy doesn´t say which seventh month we´re talking about, so continuing on the "it-might-be-neville" thing, "THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD" doesn´t necesarily have to have been born on the same year as Harry. on a totally random track now (the bit before is "streching" things a bit ): Does anyone know when Ginny´s birthday is?