flawed heroes

[Athena Appleton]

I was just wondering, are there any particular flaws that you feel makes a character unredeemable, to where that person could no longer be a hero of a story?

I'm thinking of writing a story in which the main character, while being truly generous in his own way, is a womanizer (has a wife who adores him, yet has many open extramarital affairs), accepts and gives bribes, and is friends with many people who are, even by his own standards, evil.

[Mint]

hmm... I dont like the fact that he is cheating on his wife <.< may be she is a bad person o.o Does she know about it?

I think in certain cases the hero CAN become hated in the book. One of the books that I tried reading in the store had a hero who was very cruel and also had a thing for his sister - i put that book back >_< that was too much for me. (and there was an excuse I guess for him - he was mistreated as a kid, and so on...)

But i guess different people can tollarate more or less.....

[pallas artemis]

It depends to on the type of story. There are a set of books by Eion Colfer called the Artemis Fowl series and Artemis is about twelve and he runs an Irish maffia family. He is an evil, manipulative, selfish, criminal genius. You really hate to love him but by the end you see just enough conscionce(sp) to redeem him enough for the next book.

[Gower]

I don't mind bad heroes, their just called anti heroes or something. Anyway I'm not usually bothered what they've done wrong in the past or even what they do in the story

[TDM]

Well, there are some literal heroes that are hated simply because they are misunderstood. (Heh, let me dip into the Marvel Comics.) Daredevil is an excellent example of it.

Also, I am in the process of planning a story entitled "Angel Of Death", which is basically a vigilante story, because his twin sister was kidnapped, and such, it'll end up being very complicated. Basically, he will stop at nothing. And...as you can probably guess what happens...(if you can't, check the third word of the title) but yeah, it'll be a fun story to write.

[Athena Appleton]

Wow, lots of replies!

Actually, the story is very loosely based on a high-ranking Nazi official in occupied Holland in WWII. Part of what enables him to do good things is that he is believable enough in his dealings with other SS officers and other officials that they never suspect he's working against them.

hmm... I dont like the fact that he is cheating on his wife <.< may be she is a bad person o.o Does she know about it?

No, she's not, and yes, she does... This is the one thing I'm kind of okay with doing away with, but it does take away a bulk of the story, seeing as both his wife and his mistress are his partners-in-crime...

I think in certain cases the hero CAN become hated in the book. One of the books that I tried reading in the store had a hero who was very cruel and also had a thing for his sister - i put that book back >_< that was too much for me. (and there was an excuse I guess for him - he was mistreated as a kid, and so on...)

Yeah, no incest.

Well, there are some literal heroes that are hated simply because they are misunderstood. (Heh, let me dip into the Marvel Comics.) Daredevil is an excellent example of it.

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE DAREDEVIL!!!!

My husband is really into all the Marvel comic movies, and with Elektra being made and stuff, he's just...

Well, thanks. It's not like I'm actually going to want this thing published or anything, probably wouldn't show it to many people anyway, just thought it would be fun to try, but I was wondering about that one problem...

[Devinci]

I love tainted heros......I love their humanity!!!!!!!!

[Athena Appleton]

Yeah... there's nothing inspiring about an angelic hero. First, it's just the person's nature to do the right thing. Second, there's no conflict, really. Third, I think it's harder to appreciate what someone does if you don't feel you can connect with them, and since we're all flawed in some way, we like that, at least in a fictional world, we can still be flawed but do great things.

I think the hardest thing is going to be writing the infidelity. Like, it's not something that's resolved in the end, he continues to have extra-marital affairs. Great guy, good sense of morals in some respects, no morals in other respects.

[Deedra Malfoy]

I have issues with the whole "pure" thing. No one should be pure, even a hero. They need to either be scarred or turn evil, one or the other.

[Phinea Rogue]

I don't mind flawed heroes, I think I prefer them to the too good ones. When I read a book, I usually don't focus that much on the character's actions, they may be evil, they may be good, doesn't matter. What matters is the way it's written. For example, Alex from "A Clockwork Orange" is a young violent criminal, but I love that character, it's so well written and he's rather intelligent and different. Or Steerpike from "Gormenghast" - utterly evil, cruel, but also very intelligent and persuasive. And then Heathcliff from "Wuthering Hights" or Snape. They seem more human than those who're perfect.

[Deedra Malfoy]

Exactly. I don't want a perfect hero or villan. Bur, it doesn't really matter what i think because the bad guy always loses, which is such a cheap injustice!

[TDM]

ARGH! *runs away from Athena chasing him with a baseball bat!*

Okay, okay! I'll never speak the name again!

Lol, but in certain aspects, heroes can be flawed. It's just like in HP, Harry looked at his dad as a perfect person, always standing up for good. But in OotP, he saw a side of his father that he didn't like. And that made him feel confused. Eh, you all know what I mean. James was flawed a little bit, but Sirius and Lupin vouched that he grew out of it.

[pinky p]

i think that flawed heroes are the foundation of many stories! i mean, would you really want to read a book about someone who's life is absolutely neato and they just fly around saving the less fortunate people (the rest of us) who aren't perfect??? i wouldn't! flaws give characters depth, make them come alive, help us understand them better.

did anyone else see the movie Troy? i think brad pitt's character, achilles, is a perfect example of a flawed hero. his life is killing people, that's what he does. yet somehow, the movie makers could make us think that he isn't that bad of a guy after all, and could even make us cheer for him (maybe... i wasn't really on his side but i guess one could be.)

[Athena Appleton]

I think this may be why I'm drawn so much to actual historical characters more than fictional ones. It's so easy to make fictional characters too good, or else they may be flawed in the beginning, but realize the error of their ways and turn from their bad habits and wrongdoings.

Two stories that pop out in my head are, first, Schindler's List, which is actually what inspired me to try writing this story. Schindler was a war profiteer, a member of the Nazi party, and the only way he was able to save over 1,100 Jews was to basically use them for slave labor. Saved their lives, but did it by using bribery and greed. The second is Evita. It's based Eva Peron of Argentina, who basically became the icon she did by stopping at nothing to get to the top, including being easy with the men and purposely using them to get what she wanted. Both of these are fictionalized to a degree, but the real person's flaws are there. And real flaws just don't always resolve themselves by the time the person's life is over. Schindler actually moved with his wife and mistress to Argentina. Evita fought to get to the top til the very end of her life.

[Phinea Rogue]

There's one historical character I like very much too, a king from my country's (Slovakia) history - Svatopluk. He was the king of the so-called Great Moravia (part of Czech rep - Moravia + Slovakia), a truly interesting figure. He had quite a lot of flaws - he was a womanizer and very headstrong, he betrayed his uncle to his enemies (they blinded and killed him) and allied with them, he fell for some intrigues, then he betrayed his enemy-allies and finally become a strong king.